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AN INTERVIEW WITH ROBERT FIELD,
Part 2 of 2
Exclusive to WHOOSH!
By Bret Ryan
Rudnick
Copyright © 1997 held by author
8258 words
Editor's Note: Robert Field is one of two film editors, the other being Jim Prior, for XENA: WARRIOR PRINCESS. (Film editor Doug Ibold was brought in during first season to edit three episodes due to very tight deadlines.) Mr. Field perhaps is best known in the Xenaverse as Avicus (perhaps a strange declension of AVID?), an internet presence since almost the beginning. Mr. Field gave a wonderful and fascinating presentation on what an editor does at the Burbank January 1997 Xena Convention. In October 1997, he will be appearing at the San Francisco Xena Convention. On May 15, 1997 WHOOSH's intrepid correspondent-at-large, Bret Ryan Rudnick, spent the afternoon with Mr. Field at Camp Renaissance -- located somewhere in Universal Studios. What follows is the results of Bret Rudnick's visit. Because of its mythic size, this interview will be run over two issues. Part One, which appeared last month in the July WHOOSH #10, covers the art of editing and Part Two, covers an episode by episode review of Mr. Field's output of the first two seasons. -- KMT
EPISODE REVIEW (127-229)
Chariots of War (#02)
The chariot sequences were very complex
and the weather was very wet.
RUDNICK:
[127] I wanted to go in chronological order regarding the shows you have edited and also to see if you had any particular comments about these episodes. Starting back with CHARIOTS OF WAR (#02) --FIELD:
(laughs)RUDNICK:
Which sure had some darn good chariot action sequences.FIELD:
[128] That was an interesting show, in that Gary Jones, who was second unit director for the first season and eventually ended up directing main unit on THE GREATER GOOD (#21). I have to give him credit for the bulk of that chariot race because the main unit director shot just enough of the principles during those pieces of action and said "Hey, I'm done." Second unit stepped in and provided about 75% of that entire sequence. As you might imagine, a sequence like that requires a lot of footage to cover because there is so much going on.RUDNICK:
[129] Sure, and as you have demonstrated you are switching back and forth to get the energy and tension.FIELD:
[130] They were having bad weather, as well. I know that Lucy [Lawless] herself has referred to that episode as being the most difficult and unhappy experience she has had on the show because she was wet and cold and in and out of the chariot and freezing her rear end off. They had rain problems, and the second unit took three or four weeks to complete on that show altogether because of the various delays and difficulties they had. But it ended up being a good show. It was my first show, so it was a nail-biter for me. But, it turned out well.
Cradle of Hope (#04)
Xena catching the baby after one heckuva toss.
RUDNICK:
[131] CRADLE OF HOPE (#04). There is that baby-tossing scene in CRADLE where that baby stays up in the air for seven seconds.FIELD:
[132] Is it really seven seconds?RUDNICK:
[133] Fans being what they are, they have timed it.FIELD:
[134] I knew it was beyond the bounds of logic.RUDNICK:
[135] I will have you know that it has been determined the baby was up in the air for seven seconds, and from a physics standpoint, in order for that baby to be up in the air that long, that baby would have to have been tossed up vertically some 60 meters in order to hang up there for that long. That is what you get when you have fans with time on their hands.FIELD:
[136] There is an interesting story behind that baby-tossing scene. When I first read the script and saw they were tossing a baby around, I thought "You gotta be kidding." I did not realize there was a progenitor of that scene in one of the Asian stunt films. It is not the same sequence, but the same idea, where a baby is being tossed from person to person in the midst of a fight sequence. I imagine Mr. Tapert found that amusing and thought "Hey, why not do that in XENA?"[137] A funny thing about that particular sequence is that the original concept of that shot was although the baby would be thrown in the air, it was not going to go very far. The baby was going to go up, come back down, and then Xena was going to do a little fighting in the meantime. I am not sure if this was the first time we defied the laws of physics in the show. We have done that many times, the most noticeable example being the most recent one [LOST MARINER (#45)] where Xena is leaping from the shore to the ship -- a rather prodigious distance. The baby may have been the precursor to the fact that we do defy the laws of gravity from time to time.
[138] But anyway, to go back to the story, there were several takes from the second unit where, obviously, they did not throw a real baby in the air, they used a little mannikin in a blanket. I would see the little blanket go up in the air, come back down, go up in the air, and come back down. There was something boring about that. I do not know what it was, but it also seemed that the time frame was not going to work for me because I knew my overhead shot of Xena fighting required time to do a couple of bits of action before that baby came back down. As providence would have it, in one of the takes from second unit, somebody had thrown the little mannikin just a little too hard and the baby came up to the top of the frame and then left the top of the frame. That was the one I used, because I thought "Hey, she's really tossing this baby now!"
[139] Since it went all the way through the frame and out of frame, I could play with the time/space relationship and let that baby drop back into the overhead shot at any point that felt right to me. We had a lot of discussions with the effects guys about how fast the baby needed to be moving. That was an actual baby on the way down. The baby was shot in the blanket against a blue-screen for the overhead so you could see his face when he goes back down into Xena's arms. There were some funny outtakes from the effects people because the shot was a little longer than they wanted it to be, so they slowed the baby down. There's a couple shots where the baby seems to be floating down to Xena's arms as opposed to falling. They got the speed right and got the right blur motion on it. It was Mr. Tapert's idea that after Xena catches it to cut to the baby giggling and cooing to show that he is okay.
Prometheus (#08)
PROMETHEUS was Mr. Field's first special-effects intensive show.
RUDNICK:
[140] PROMETHEUS (#08). There is that flying bird scene, and there is one particular point where Hercules is standing there, he catches Xena, and off in the distance the flying bird just takes a nosedive right into the ground.FIELD:
[141] (smiles) Right, right. I will tell you the real story behind the bird. That was a big, big, big effects sequence, especially for XENA. When I came on the show I was told "HERCULES has a lot of effects but XENA really isn't going to have many effects at all." There might be a chakram effect here and there, but that would be it. Next thing you know I am hit with PROMETHEUS (#08).[142] I had never done an effects show to that point. As you probably know from looking at the show, it [the bird] did not even exist in the original photography. The shots of the bird flying and so forth in the first cut of the show ended up being title cards like 'Bird Flying Toward Camera'. I had to guess at what the proper length for that title would be. The animators created the creature and filled the space in.
[143] The shot of the bird falling was really an idea of Kevin O'Neill's and the effects people, because I had never planned on having that shot. He said "Gee, wouldn't it be funny if in the background the bird whistles down and plops in the background." We did not have the budget for any additional effects shots so I could not authorize it. O'Neill said "Ah, never mind, we'll just go ahead and do it." We also did not run it by Rob Tapert so he had no idea it was going to be there. The show got finished and the shot was finished. We all looked at it and we knew it was hysterical and it would *have* to go in. Rob Tapert, when he finally saw the shot just before the show went to delivery thought it was hysterical when we showed it to him. He loved it as well.
[144] The only person who was not happy with that shot going into the show was Bernie Joyce , the coordinating producer [to be interviewed in September 1997 WHOOSH! #13]. She is primarily responsible for the sounds as well as the whole post-production process in general. Her complaint to me was "Gee, you could have let me know that bird was going in there so I could have put a sound effect on it!" She thought it was funny as well but sorry she could not have done something more with it. But it was all done at the last second.
RUDNICK:
[145] It was noticed and appreciated, though.FIELD:
(laughs)
Death In Chains (#09)
Renee O'Connor is confronted with merely one rat,
while Lucy Lawless had to deal with dozens.
RUDNICK:
[146] DEATH IN CHAINS (#09). There are some rats that made it to the blooper reel from that episode.FIELD:
[147] There are a couple of rat takes in the blooper reel. One is where Renee is in a kind of vestibule near a curtain and a rat was running along a sill next to her at eye level. She just started busting up. Unfortunately, that blooper does not have any audio on it, but you can tell she is just losing it. The other one shows how much Lucy Lawless is willing to do just about anything that is asked of her. They literally dumped a box of rats on her back. This is one of those strange stories where things never go according to plan.[148] The original plan was they hired the rats and rat wrangler -- Gary Jones was the second unit director -- and this horde of rats was supposed to come racing down this sewer or drainage pipe at Xena and Talus. The rats did not know they were supposed to do that so they just kind of wandered around. There are people in the background shaking rattles -- you cannot see them -- yelling and screaming and making noise but the rats really are not doing much of anything. Rob Tapert, after looking at the footage, asked that we shoot more footage of rats coming out of a hole so we would know where they were coming from. That was actually added in. But because the rats would not run from where they were supposed to come from and jump on the actors they had to literally be dumped on them. So Lucy's in this tunnel and had a box of rats dumped on her back and she's laughing and screaming and kind of going nuts and her last comment was "They're bloody nesting in me! That's disgusting!" Then they cut the camera. And that's the piece I put into the blooper reel.
[149] She actually had to get a tetanus shot after that sequence because she was pretty badly scratched. So they did that as a precaution.
RUDNICK:
[150] I have heard her say, via interviews and such, that she has to eat a lot more red meat than she would like to because it helps her heal faster from the bruises and injuries.FIELD:
[151] That could be true. It looks like a fairly safe activity (staged fight scenes) but she has gotten cold-cocked more than once. I am not going to tell you that story though, because I shouldn't. (smiles)
Fistful of Dinars (#14)
We never thought the first time we saw it in FISTFUL OF DINARS
that ambrosia would be so problematic.
RUDNICK:
[152] Fair enough. (smiles) FISTFUL OF DINARS (#14). This has a real "Indiana Jones" feel to it. Was that a deliberate thing? Because that particular episode, more than some, is like a mini-movie.FIELD:
[153] That particular approach was never discussed by myself with anyone else on the production staff, neither the producers, writers, or director. If that was something that came out of it, that is pretty good company to be in. Josh Becker, the director, did a very good job with that show. I had a lot of fun working on it although the bridge sequence was pretty elaborate -- the whole thing with the bridge collapsing. If I think about it there are elements of Indiana Jones in there. I never thought about it at the time, because I was always connecting it back more as an homage to the Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns, which I felt was where it was getting its roots drawn from. But, sure. (laughs)
Mortal Beloved (#16)
Gabby waits by the lake. And waits. And waits.
RUDNICK:
[154] MORTAL BELOVED (#16). There is a scene in MORTAL BELOVED (#16) where Gabrielle is waiting by the lake.FIELD:
(laughs)RUDNICK:
[155] It is a very minor scene, but quite frankly it is one of the more memorable scenes in the series.FIELD:
[156] She is waiting by the lake in a few scenes if I remember correctly. For me the more notable one is where she is just sitting there, Xena and Marcus are wandering around down in Tartarus, down in this dark netherworld, and we periodically come back to these very idyllic, very tranquil, very pastoral, beautiful shots seeing her sitting by the water. The villagers come by and ask if she is going to the festival. Why that scene is memorable, those sequences, I do not know. My guess is many fans thought it was amusing. For one thing, Gabrielle has to sit back and do nothing again -- in this case literally do nothing. It also provided her with a location for Atyminius to come out and surprise her and try to kill her, which of course was not an attempt that succeeded. But I think also, in some of the Internet things, people found that scene amusing. There was a website that even had a section devoted to "Gabby's Adventures by the Lake" [ The Amazing Adventures of Gabby by the Lake ]. It did stick out, but I do not know why. Nothing planned there.
The Prodigal (#18)
Gabrielle props up a drunken Meleager the Mightily Sauced
in THE PRODIGAL
RUDNICK:
[157] THE PRODIGAL (#18). Some of those villagers defending the town scenes were amusing and well put together. Before Meleager shows up at the end, the cavalry comes over the hill, and those scenes stand out and were well organized.FIELD:
[158] Thanks. I really do not have anything to add to that. The only singular point I could make about those fight scenes is that they were pretty elaborate. The most interesting thing that I remember is that there is one wide shot where the fight is winding down and there is a sequence where some villagers are really beating up on some of the bad guys. The director, John Kretchmer, who also directed A SOLSTICE CAROL (#33), is very sensitive to screen violence and not going too far. He does not mind violence as long as it remains within the borders of comedy. But once it goes beyond the borders of comedy and starts edging into reality, he gets very uncomfortable. So that sequence was actually scaled back at that point from what I originally cut to stay with what his level, his boundaries of taste were.
Altared States (#19)
Xena zips by some dramatic scenery
in ALTARED STATES.
RUDNICK:
[159] ALTARED STATES (#19).FIELD:
(groans but smiles)RUDNICK:
[160] There are a lot of wide vistas and that sort of thing that makes the episode stand out visually. Did you have to sort through much to get just the right feel? Or was this just part of a "trying to explain God" with the wide expanse theme?FIELD:
[161] Some of that was intentional, some of it was born of necessity. Most of XENA's episodes end up being long on the first cut and the director's cut. ALTARED STATES (#19) was one of those exceptions where the show actually ended up being short. Much of what Michael Levine, the director of that show, did was intentionally done. He shot many very wide vistas to convey, as I interpret it, the scope of what was essentially a "God interpretive" story. He wanted to show majesty, and you show that with size and scale - much like Kevin Costner did in DANCES WITH WOLVES (1990) where he pulls back in the Dakota badlands and the wagon is a little speck in the giant scenery. Some of that came out of the production itself, and in order to fill up some of the empty space in the show, we actually created some scenery or beauty montages that were originally intended to fill time, and then somehow because of their own ironic construction and placement became part of that monolithic representation. I guess it could be interpreted that way. It was another one of those happy accidents.
The Greater Good (#21)
Salmoneus tries to explain his way out of another fix
in THE GREATER GOOD
RUDNICK:
[162] THE GREATER GOOD (#21), which you mentioned before as one of your personal favorites, and is probably a "top ten" for me as well, there's some --FIELD:
[163] Talking about shows being long, that show was really, really long on its first cut.RUDNICK:
[164] I am sure many people would like to see anything and everything to do with that episode.FIELD:
[165] You know it is funny, because many shows we literally have to lose scenes to get them down to time. THE GREATER GOOD (#22) was a rarity, in that Gary Jones and I, rather than removing scenes, because we had to lose two -- and I can discuss those in a second. Actually, we only lost one scene intact, everything else was taking bits and pieces out of existing scenes. In other words, we looked at a scene and said "Where's the fat, where's the bone, where's the meat?" How much fat could we trim away, how much meat could be trimmed and not cut into the bone but still keep as much meat as we can. That show was more of a condensation than actually losing elements of it. The show remains very true to its original script in about 98% of the cases.RUDNICK:
[166] In particular, there is the editing of the death scene and Gabrielle's beating up the tree and the way that is put together, that is another very crucial and important moment in "XENA history". It is one of the scenes that really stands out as exemplary.FIELD:
[167] As much as I would like to take credit for both of those scenes I have to give Renee O'Connor credit for absolutely stunning understatement in the funeral scene, and absolutely brilliant explosions of emotion and rage in the tree-bashing scene. The fact that they are right next to each other kind of tends to point up the emotional quality of both scenes. I am hoping that the editing also helped in that if you look at the two sequences and study them from an editor's standpoint: the funeral scene is cut with a very, very slow rhythm - -- the cuts are very long. I would hold on Renee's face until the moment at which I feel like I am almost too long and then I will cut back to Xena, or to Salmoneus reacting, or whatnot. For me, that slow pacing is what allowed that scene to develop its emotional strength.
Argo the Wonder Horse even has scenes cut.
[168] Then striking the tree is a scene where the cuts are very fast to help convey the anger and frustration which she is feeling. Referring to the scene which was eliminated, many fans in the Internet said to Steve Sears, "Gee wouldn't it have been great if there'd been a scene with Gabrielle and Argo." In fact, there was. After Gabrielle spent her time slashing the tree, she drops to the ground, completely drained, and Argo comes up and starts nuzzling her -- Argo, whom she was not particularly fond of, even at the very beginning of the show. She says "I guess it's just you and me now." She kisses Argo on the nose and says "Well, I'd better go off on foot myself, you wait here until I get back.
RUDNICK:
[169] There are probably several people reading right now saying, "They cut *THAT*?!" in incredulous disbelief. But as you say, something has got to go somewhere to fit the time.FIELD:
[170] Something has got to go. The director and I, and I suspect the producers as well, did not want to lose that scene, but as somebody once said to me, relative to making tough decisions in what to take out of the show, "You gotta kill the weak babies." So in making that decision it seemed like the funeral scene and the tree-bashing scene by themselves were enough. Argo would have been a nice addition, but it was not crucial to the narrative which had to be propelled and had to keep going.RUDNICK:
[171] One final question on THE GREATER GOOD. There was a lot of speculation as to whether or not the "as-yet-unidentified" Callisto who hits Xena with the dart at the beginning of the episode was Hudson Leick or a body double. Care to comment?FIELD:
[172] Well, there is always a risk at some point of telling too much and giving the farm away. But, this isn't too terribly important. No, the girl who fires the dart at Xena is not Hudson. She is, as you suggested, a body double.
Callisto (#22)
Callisto and Xena, communicating effectively.
RUDNICK:
[173] Another extremely intense and very popular episode is CALLISTO (#22). One of the questions my boss and publisher, Kym Taborn, wanted me to specifically ask was "What's the *real* story behind the campfire scene?" Were the ladies cracking up as somehave speculated on the internet or was it as intense as it looked?FIELD:
[174] I am not sure. I do not believe they were cracking up. If anything, I feel that, and this is still fairly early on in Xena's character evolution, this is really the first time we saw her break down or expose any vulnerability, which was a big first. I think personally both actresses were very deeply into their characters and very deep into the emotion in the scene. I at first avoided the take at the point where Lucy actually laughs. I thought, as some other people might have thought, she kind of lost it on the set. The director, T. J. Scott, said no, he was on the set, he was there watching and it was Lucy being Xena and that her character was so uncomfortable with the emotion she was feeling it was a nervous laugh. So that shows you what *I* know. (smiles)RUDNICK:
[175] We have already talked about the ladder fight and its complexity. At the end of the campfire scene, there is a moment where the two of them look at the camera and stare. The way that scene plays out is very striking. It goes from very intense to abstract or surreal. It is a very powerful scene, and I was wondering how much influence you had in that.FIELD:
[176] This again is one of those happy accidents, I feel, in that it did not make sense to go out of the scene any earlier. One of the things I believe in regarding editing is the shot should be as long as it has meaning. Which means you do not want to get out of it before it is finished completing an idea, or action, or whatever. You also do not want to be in a shot *too* long. I felt I had to let the characters finish what they were doing and I was complaining to T.J. Scott a little bit because I said "I feel like they're looking in the camera." He said "No, they're looking at the fire." The camera was behind the fire. So it could be done one of two ways. They are either looking at the fire or they are looking at the camera intentionally. It becomes abstract because of that very significant sunrise that kind of "halos" them. This is one of those things where you are sitting in the editing room and you are putting it together and you go "Wow, that's really neat! I like it! Let's go on." It is not necessarily something where you go "Yes, I'm going to do this." It is not always planned. Sometimes you just find things that work and you keep them in.
Giant Killer (#27)
Goliath enters the scene
in GIANT KILLER.
RUDNICK:
[177] GIANT KILLER (#27) is not regarded as a very popular episode, less to do with editing than just the general nature of the episode. But there is a scene in there, again which gets very much discussed, where Gabrielle takes Xena's hand. In this case I am not just talking about a subtextual point of view but rather more a compassion and caring point of view. We are early in the second season here but we are seeing the characters grow to the extent that their relationship with each other gets closer and closer. That seemed very poignant - -- I am looking here for a "good" spot in what many of people regard as not-so-great an episode.FIELD:
[178] GIANT KILLER (#27) is one of those odd circumstances where it is an episode that has great moments but is perhaps flawed by a misconception in the story idea. I am not going to criticize it too much because I have my own personal feelings about it. Obviously the producers felt it was a worthwhile story and it is their right to make those decisions. I am not going to get into that at all. I thought there were certain sequences in the show that worked very well but the one you are referring to really is nothing more than that. It is just the evolution in the characters' relationship. The director shot very intentionally the insert of their hands coming together, holding each other's hands, so I used it, I mean, why not? Again, it is one of those moments where Xena is letting her guard down in front of Gabrielle, whom she trusts. It is appropriate for those kinds of moments for those two to share intimacy of that nature. It works for them. That is all I have to say about GIANT KILLER (#27). (laughs)
Girls Just Wanna Have Fun (#28)
Vampires are everywhere
in GIRLS JUST WANNA HAVE FUN.
RUDNICK:
[179] GIRLS JUST WANNA HAVE FUN (#28).FIELD:
[180] Oh, don't they. (laughs)RUDNICK:
[181] I do not mean this in any personal way at all --FIELD:
[182] Oh, go for it!RUDNICK:
[183] But what the heck was up with that "cinema verite" kind of camera action, jerking around, uneven scenes? To be fair, I did notice the same kind of thing, not meaning to sound pejorative, to a "worse" extent in the corresponding HERCULES Halloween episode.FIELD:
[184] If you want to go to the heart of the matter in what the camera was doing in that episode you really have to go to T.J. Scott. He has a very specific and particular style true to himself only. I do not think there is any other director that works on XENA or HERCULES who employs as constantly a moving camera as T.J. does. As a director that is his choice and his prerogative and as long as the producers like what he is doing, he has earned that right.[185] Do I agree or disagree with the constantly moving camera? I am split. As a student of cinema, and as a fan of what I described to you earlier as the artifice of cinema remaining invisible to the eye, whether it be quality of performance or camera movement or editing or even sound, I personally believe it works best when it does not draw attention to itself. There are those that would argue, and rightfully so, that T.J.'s camera work does draw attention to itself. But with him, it is a stylistic device that has a particular purpose and a particular place in what he is trying to say. So I cannot fault him for that. On the other hand, it certainly gives the show life and it gives it a movement that imparts a certain kind of energy. I have even been accused of overdoing the overlapping images, one image superimposed on top of another, what we call "visual layering". Some people thought it was overdone. That is a subjective thing. Some people thought it was great. None of us can please everybody. I am happy if I pleased one person, even if it is only me. (smiles)
[186] In the Halloween episode I thought it was appropriate. In some cases I thought the multi-layering was very effective and in other cases maybe not as effective.
Return of Callisto (#29)
Callisto, about to lose her safe driver points
in RETURN OF CALLISTO.
RUDNICK:
[187] RETURN OF CALLISTO (#29). Yet again, another great set of action sequences and a very intense episode. It is an episodes where you hold your breath practically throughout the entire show. Thank goodness for commercials or else we would never breathe.FIELD:
[188] There is not too much comedy relief in that show. Joxer was developed in the first CALLISTO (#22) to provide some comedic relief and Rob Tapert felt very strongly in that particular episode that it was not going to come from Xena and it was not going to come from Gabrielle. But it had to come from somewhere, because he felt the episode was so dark and so strong in its darkness that it needed that "jolt" to help it along. You need a chance to relax every once in awhile. Steven Spielberg knew that when he made JAWS (1975). There are bits of comedy in there that are unexpected to give the audience a chance to catch their breath before the next onslaught.[189] RETURN OF CALLISTO (#29) seemed to have less of that, although there is some, like Joxer trying to split the barrel with his sword. But, most of the show is pretty intense. The entire fourth act is ten minutes of solid action. That is all it is. It starts off in Callisto's cave, there is a battle between Xena and Callisto's henchmen, and then Xena and Callisto, and Gabrielle fighting off people as well, not to mention another chariot race. Two chariots are chasing each other which is kind of an emulation of the single horse race in the first CALLISTO (#22). There is the fight on the chariot ending up with them in the quicksand and Xena's subsequent "allowing" Callisto to sink to her death.
[190] As we know in the world of XENA, death does not necessarily mean you are gone. Again, it was a T.J. Scott directed episode, and he is very good with action. He did a lot of footage and a lot of coverage and that scene was no exception. It was a b***-buster, but it was fun.
Destiny (#36)
Caesar, Julius Caesar, never had it so good
in DESTINY.
RUDNICK:
[191] DESTINY (#36). A pivotal episode. You had to work around Lucy Lawless' injury.FIELD:
[192] Actually, no. DESTINY (#36) was shot prior to the injury. DESTINY (#36) was as much an epic in its making as it seemed to be in viewing.RUDNICK:
[193] Were DESTINY (#36), THE QUEST (#37), and A NECESSARY EVIL (#38) planned to work out as a three-story arc?FIELD:
[194] I do not believe they were.RUDNICK:
[195] In retrospect, it did come together pretty well.FIELD:
[196] There has been some discussion. Some fans have accurately pinpointed the intricacies of script and the fact they were changed to accommodate Lucy's accident. Certainly these two stories were modified slightly in their ending sequences to accommodate a shift in story direction. I am not going to go into the specifics of that because I do not think it is my right to do so. DESTINY (#36) was shot well in advance of Lucy's accident and it was Rob Tapert's show -- he directed it.[197] We worked a long time on that one. One of the reasons the show took so long is because as they were shooting they were heading into the rainy season and into the hiatus period. All the footage of the boats had not been shot because the weather was not right. They had to wait three months until they went back into production. They actually had to later go out and shoot the boat footage that was subsequently integrated into the show.
A Necessary Evil (#38)
Callisto taunts Gabrielle by playing a brutal game of "Truth or Dare"
in A NECESSARY EVIL
RUDNICK:
[198] A NECESSARY EVIL (#38) is another of my top ten favorites. It combines a number of elements I like, including Callisto, the Amazons, and high drama. It was also the highest rated action episode in syndication since the premiere of STAR TREK: DEEP SPACE NINE, pulling a 7.8 which was absolutely terrific. Again, another very intense episode with a lot of action but also with some very quiet moments.FIELD:
[199] My favorite scene is the campfire scene between Callisto and Gabrielle. It is one of those strange things where pacing makes a scene more effective. The normal rule of thumb in dialogue cutting, at least my personal rule of thumb, is that you cut dialogue so there are natural pauses between sentences. For most of the exchange between Gabrielle and Callisto in the campfire scene in A NECESSARY EVIL (#38) we believe that Gabrielle, as the scene develops, is getting inside Callisto, that she is finding that shred of humanity that seems to be missing. All the shots are played out with very long, long, long beats between the dialogue lines. Not only is the character getting time to absorb what is said and really think about it before they answer back, the audience has the chance to do so as well. In fact I even had a chance to discuss this with Hudson Leick and she said "Oh, yes, that made the scene work better. It is like the ticking of a clock." It just adds to that moment, because if anyone wants to go back and look at that scene again you will notice there is a long time between dialogue lines. But somehow that magnifies the impact of the speech. At least, that is how I felt about it. That is why I put it together that way.RUDNICK:
[200] It was a very tense scene, in the sense that we know how Gabrielle feels about Callisto and all the things she has done up to that point. Yet there is a piece of Gabrielle, a part deep inside her that says perhaps "Virtually anybody is worth saving." She is reaching out trying to find something as if to say "You're not bad because you're a bad person, necessarily, you're bad because you were made that way."FIELD:
[201] Also, "Even if you are bad, somewhere deep inside of you there's gotta be a part that can be reached." That is part of Gabrielle's humanity. That is very much a part of what her character is. Whereas Xena would go "To hell with this person, there's nothing worth redeeming," then throw them over the balcony.RUDNICK:
[202] That was also an interesting thing I found in the sequence of events as we saw throughout Callisto's appearances -- where Xena was first affected by her guilt, admitting she herself had done bad things as well. Xena gave her one chance but after that...FIELD:
[203] She's gotta go. I even got the sense in RETURN OF CALLISTO (#29) she was willing to give her a chance up to a point. But then at some vague story juncture Callisto crossed that line with Xena. If you put Xena and Gabrielle in the same situation, you know that Gabrielle would have attempted to save Callisto whereas Xena decided at that moment, "no." Of course, if Xena knew the Xenaverse as well as we do, she would know simply allowing Callisto to die would still not be the end of it. (both laugh)
Xena and Ephiny make plans to stop Velasca
in A NECESSARY HAIR CARE PRODUCT.
[204] But going back to A NECESSARY EVIL (#38) for just another brief comment. It was a very different episode from a couple of standpoints from where I sit. It was really the first episode of all the shows where the cast was made up almost entirely of women. There were only two men in the entire story and those were two guards, and they both get wasted. The entire rest of the cast is made up of the Amazons, and Velasca the "goddess turned b****h", Callisto, Xena, and Gabrielle. It was kind of an interesting coincidence as far as that goes.
[205] It was also the first time in any show we employed pyrotechnics to the extent we did. It almost gave it a sci-fi feel, for me, but it was definitely appropriate to the story.
[206] It was also the first time the director, Mark Beesley, had directed a HERCULES or XENA episode, and I am not sure what his background is.
[207] From an editorial standpoint there are more picture edits in A NECESSARY EVIL than any other episode I had done before. An average episode is between 800 and 900 edits and that is a lot for a 45 minute episode. A NECESSARY EVIL (#38) had 1,262. It was cooking.
A Day In The Life (#39)
What you see is all you get
in A DAY IN THE LIFE.
RUDNICK:
[208] A DAY IN THE LIFE (#39) is perhaps one of the most discussed, if not loved, episodes. It is primarily comedic, but there are some serious things going on as well.FIELD:
[209] I am not sure where the serious parts are. But, to me the basic underpinning of this show is really the love these two women have for one another. Whether one wishes to view that as romantic love or a very deep, very strongly bonded friendship is up to the individual and I have read arguments that run in both directions. For myself, it is an academic point. Even so, it was a fun episode to work on and I think it is apparent watching it that the people involved in shooting it were having a good time as well, including our leads.RUDNICK:
[210] The "hot tub scene" is infamous in its frequency of discussion.FIELD:
[211] I need to put a little -- well, maybe I *shouldn't* put this one to rest. I will anyway. I am frequently besieged by requests for the "hot tub" outtakes. I need to just very quietly put to rest the idea that there is anything in the outtakes that is anything other than what you are seeing. The scene is actually one take from beginning to end. There are no edits. I received three takes of the same action. The outtakes do not have them getting in or out of the tub. There is nothing going on there. The two other takes that exist are identical to the one used except for a line bobbled here -- Renee got the wrong word and paused in one take. Something else happened in the other take. So, sorry guys. There is nothing there!RUDNICK:
(laughs)FIELD:
[212] A DAY IN THE LIFE (#39) was a joy to work on, and Michael Hurst (director) as I mentioned earlier was not able to come to Los Angeles but was an absolute treasure to work with.
The Execution (#41)
Tension mounts in the execution scene
of THE EXECUTION.
RUDNICK:
[213] THE EXECUTION (#41) and BLIND FAITH (#42). Do you have any particular moments that stand out for you in either of those episodes?FIELD:
[214] Every episode I work on, at one point I go "Boy, I wish I could have made that better or, it is too bad production did not have enough time to make that better." I have enjoyed all the episodes for one reason or another and I am always very happily surprised when I see them completed, because sitting in front of a computer monitor with no sound effects or music unless I put them in temporarily, it tends to play a little dry. I am always happy when the shows come back finished and I always go "Wow, that's pretty good."[215] In THE EXECUTION (#41) I would have to say the execution sequence itself is my favorite sequence in that show because the show really started firing on all cylinders then. The drama worked and Renee's reaction worked.
RUDNICK:
[216] You did not do THE PRICE (#44)?FIELD:
[217] No, but I wish I had.RUDNICK:
[218] Did you see it?FIELD:
[219] Yes, I did.RUDNICK:
[220] It put me in mind of the Stanley Baker film ZULU (1964).FIELD:
[221] Is that the one with Michael Caine?RUDNICK:
[222] Yes, Michael Caine's motion picture debut, I believe.FIELD:
[223] I am sure I did see it, the relentless attack on the British fort. I did not make that connection but you are absolutely right.
Comedy of Eros (#46)
Xena tries to control herself
in A COMEDY OF EROS.
RUDNICK:
[224] You did COMEDY OF EROS (#46), but I have not seen it yet to be able to ask intelligent questions about it.FIELD:
[225] Then I will not ruin it for you.RUDNICK:
[226] But since I have got you here, I have to ask if any particular aspect of that show stands out for you.FIELD:
[227] COMEDY OF EROS (#46) is an interesting prospect because Joxer is a very prominent character in this episode. There is no question about the controversy his name creates. He has his defenders and he has his attackers. It seems that both sides are pretty vociferous in terms of their support or non-support.
A bespelled Gabrielle smooches "her man" in
A COMEDY OF EROS.
RUDNICK:
[228] I have noticed over time the negativity toward him seems to be moderating and more people are speaking up for him.FIELD:
[229] I have noticed some posts that I have read about this particular episode where they feel he has been redeemed. I am not going to get in the middle of that controversy because my opinion is immaterial. But Joxer is a pretty big character in this episode. For those that are not terribly fond of him they are going to get pretty tweaked. Overall it is a wonderfully comic episode. It has some really good laughs in it and a few places where I have seen a scene fifteen or twenty times in the course of editing it and they still make me laugh. It is not a serious episode by any means but it is fun. I am looking forward to hearing some of the outrage from some of the corners of the Internet.
DIFFERENT MARKETS
Many countries, but only one version.
RUDNICK:
[230] Just a couple more things here and we are done. One thing that was brought up when we were in the editing room a little while ago -- do you have to make different cuts for different markets? Some countries run longer or shorter times in an hour due to commercial length and such.FIELD:
[231] No, and this question has come up from people who seem to think they have seen different mixes or different versions of the show. There is only one version of each show that leaves Renaissance and Universal. In overseas markets they do have different running times. I do not believe there are any that are longer. I am not aware of anyone going back into the shows and adding footage. It is my understanding that in some markets and territories, however, they run a shorter version.[232] What is very disconcerting to us is that there does not seem to be any care or thought taken to where the deletions are made. I have heard of shows being cut arbitrarily at some point to a commercial and coming back in on a fade-out. Even somebody who is not editorially experienced has got to understand logically that does not make sense. I do not know how these decisions are made. There is nothing we can do about that.
RUDNICK:
[233] I do not know if they do this out here on the west coast, but on the east coast I find it very irritating where after the show is over they roll the credits and scrunch it up into a tiny corner on the screen to show some other local promo for "Coming up next on News You Don't Want to Hear About is.." I personally find that very irritating, because I *like* to see who does what on the show.FIELD:
[234] You can imagine it is frustrating for the people who work on the show. We all put in a lot of time and energy and care to make sure the shows are the best that they can be from what we know. Credits are meaningful in this town both for the people who have earned them and for people who may be looking for reasons of curiosity or whatever. It is sad to know those are being put into a type size that an ant could not read with a magnifying glass. But there does not seem to be much we can do about it, other than protest. I do not know where that gets done or how it can be controlled, it seems to be a station-by-station circumstance to some degree.
THIRD SEASON
RUDNICK:
[235] And the final question for the day -- but first thank you very, *very* much for your time, you have been very generous and it is much appreciated.FIELD:
[236] (smiles)You are quite welcome. You are lucky I *had* the time.RUDNICK:
[237] I ask this question of everyone I interview and you do not have to answer it if you do not want to, but is there anything coming up in the season that you would care to share or feel comfortable about sharing -- something you are excited about --FIELD:
[238] I am going to say one thing, as we discussed earlier in the day. I tend to be very proprietary about the information I give out about these shows and there are many reasons for that. Primarily, I like to keep people intrigued, and I like to keep them interested, but I do not want to spoil anything for them in a material way. Beyond that, there is a certain sense of responsibility that I have towards the show and the company I work for, which is Renaissance Pictures, and I feel I have a certain boundary I must operate within. To expose too much information about upcoming episodes I feel is not my province. If Rob Tapert wants to spill the beans about upcoming shows, he is the Executive Producer, he has that right. I am not going to presume to make those kinds of decisions.[239] BUT, that has not stopped me from throwing out teasers. And I am going to qualify all of this by throwing a real coal on the fire, which is to mention the "rift" between Gabrielle and Xena which has been alluded to and oft-discussed. I believe that Steve Sears is responsible for leaking that one out some months ago. I have been asked via e-mail and even live in chat rooms "What about the 'rift'?" I think I have worked my Thor Heyerdahl joke to death because I'll say "Oh yeah, isn't that what Thor Heyerdahl used to sail around the world?" Everybody comes back and says, "No, that was the '*raft*'!" [note: Thor Heyerdahl sailed from South America to Polynesia in 1947 in the raft "Kon Tiki" and several years later from North Africa to South America in the raft "Ra" in an effort to prove ancient civilizations could have had cross-oceanic traffic.]
RUDNICK:
(laughs)FIELD:
[240] So, up until now I have been pretty mum on this topic. I am not going to comment on this other than to say nothing that has been seen up to now has anything to do with it. *Nothing* that you have seen will *prepare* you for what is going to happen. Because it is -- well, let's just say the eruption of Mount Vesuvius and the subsequent destruction of Pompeii is somewhat mild by comparison. Lucy once referred to upcoming second season episodes by saying "It's going to be a bumpy ride". This is quite a bit more than bumpy. I'd say it's about the same as comparing the "Small World" ride at Disneyland to attempting to surf in a category five hurricane.RUDNICK:
[241] Pretty potent stuff.![]()
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You will see at least all of these "Usual Suspects" in Season 3.
Left to right:
Joxer, the Mighty; Ephiny, the Permed; Callisto, the Wild-eyed Goddess; Caesar, Julius Caesar, a jerk by any other name; Ares, father figure or just a hot date, you decide; Gabrielle Jr., the mystery child; Autolycus, friend or foe; Meg, a fun date; and the *Spanking New* Generic Female Nemesis
(see what happens when you forget to pay the nanny on time, Gabrielle?)
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