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Author's Note: Jacqueline Kim is perhaps best known to Xena fans as Lao Ma, from THE DEBT, PARTS ONE and TWO (52-53/306- 307). But even this part is a tiny fraction of Ms. Kim's repertoire. The first film I could find a listing for her was The Mighty Ducks (Stephen Herek, 1992), a small but solid part. She moved to Los Angeles more permanently in 1994, and landed roles in White Mile (TV, Robert Butler, 1994), Star Trek: Generations (David Carson, 1994), and Disclosure (Barry Levinson, 1994). More recently, she played an ER doctor in Volcano (Mick Jackson, 1997). Xena fans got to see her recently in THE DEBT, but Ms. Kim also has a very solid love of theatre. All this and more we talked about via telephone on 5 December 1997, as I typed furiously and tried not to miss anything. In some ways, this was not hard to do, because Ms. Kim is a very thoughtful, intense person. Though we were not face to face, I could tell she was thinking about her responses very carefully, not in a bad way, but in a very measured, in-depth way. She was very gracious and patient with my questions, which fail to do her complex personality justice. It is obvious there is much, much more to her than a very brief interview can hope to reveal, but we all have begin someplace, and in this case, I began at the beginning.
Acting and Early Career (01-11)
Getting The Part of Lao Ma (12-19)
Preparing For The Role of Lao Ma (20-23)
The "Kissing" Scene (24-29)
Subtext (30-35)
The Future (36-43)
Biography
Acting and Early Career
BRET RUDNICK:
[01] I notice that from 1994 onwards you seem to be quite busy, with a number of projects. Where did you actually get started in your career?JACQUELINE KIM:
[02] I was raised in Detroit. When I was about 14, I started studying at a little theatre down the street called the "Willow Way". It was a tiny little community theatre that mainly did musicals, but during the day they had classes, Greek theatre and classic things. Then I studied at a drama school in Chicago for four years, when I was an undergrad. I started acting in the theatre in Chicago. That took me to D.C. and then back to Chicago. Then I was in an acting company in Minneapolis for four years before I came to Los Angeles. Pretty much my whole career has been in the theatre. I just arrived in Los Angeles the end of 1993.
Lao Ma is a non-meat-eating guest of Borias.
RUDNICK:
[03] So acting is what you have wanted to do since you were 14?KIM:
[04] It was not anything I set my sights on. In an Asian-American family it is common to be exposed to the arts when you are very young. We all played classical music on the piano or violin since we were four or five. That bridged into musical theatre and singing, and before I knew it I was in the theatre. [smile in her voice] But in an Asian family, being an actor is like being an underwater basket weaver. It's not a possibility; it's not something you think about. So I had to fight for it.RUDNICK:
[05] Are your parents supportive of you now?KIM:
[06] Oh, yes, they're supportive. They're great people, my parents. They're just very traditional. They have more of an immigrant mentality in that they want to be sure their daughter can make an income. I'm the first generation to be born here. My parents came here in their college years. My mother was born and raised in Japan, my father was born and raised in Korea. They are both Korean.RUDNICK:
[07] When you got started, was The Mighty Ducks (Stephen Herek, 1992) the first "big break" for you in film?KIM:
[08] [laughs] Well, The Mighty Ducks didn't really do all that much for me -- it was only a moment, really. I don't think people would know me from that. But I got to meet Steven Herek and Emilio Estevez who are great people.[09] In terms of coming out to Los Angeles, I have to say I was lucky. I met with a really nice casting director in New York. I told her I was going to be leaving the theatre. She introduced me to some agents in New York who have corresponding partners in Los Angeles. I met a really good agent in Los Angeles, and I just came out here and auditioned. White Mile (TV, Robert Butler, 1994) was the first job I auditioned for then.
RUDNICK:
[10] Many of the characters you have played, such as the doctor in Volcano (Mick Jackson, 1997) or Sulu's daughter in Star Trek: Generations (David Carson, 1994), are strong female characters. It's still non-traditional in Hollywood, and many Xena fans appreciate this. Is this a kind of role you are interested in?KIM:
[11] [laughs] I'm certainly interested in what is considered non-traditional. I think every Asian-American actress wishes Hollywood would "move on" from the image that they had before. It's not that Hollywood isn't budging now, even now there's a lot of care in how Asian people are portrayed. Asian people just want to be portrayed as human beings. Actors do too, yet actors want to just do anything. But we're pegged very soon. It's a very product-oriented business. Xena was a lot of fun, because the character is a very strong, epic sort of woman they're creating. It was very exciting to be a part of that.
Getting the Part Of Lao Ma
Jacqueline Kim conveys much with few words, sometimes no words.
RUDNICK:
[12] How did you get the part of Lao Ma?KIM:
[13] They called me and made the offer to my agent.RUDNICK:
[14] They knew who you were and wanted you specifically for that part?KIM:
[15] I guess. [laughs] That happens to me a lot in theatre, but it happens rarely in Hollywood.RUDNICK:
[16] So they called you up and down you went to New Zealand. Was it a pretty rigorous schedule, being a two-part episode?KIM:
[17] I've only done one series, which was Court House (TV, 1995). I've never really done a lot of television. So I wasn't really sure what to expect. But because this was a feature cut into two parts it was much more hectic than what even they usually have. The costume people were working until two in the morning and coming back at six. To the bitter end they were working really hard.RUDNICK:
[18] The episode itself has gone over very well with most fans, and Lao Ma has turned out to be a very, very popular character.KIM:
[19] Oh, cool!
Preparing for the Role of Lao Ma
Lao Ma teaches Xena that breaking bottles is not about breaking bottles.
RUDNICK:
[20] You impressed quite a few people in your portrayal of that character. What did you do to prepare for that kind of role?KIM:
[21] You know, I only had a week and a half. I kept reading the latest versions of the scripts, I got a little more into martial arts, I used my knowledge of Tai Chi, and I watched some of the Hong Kong films that inspired Rob [Tapert]. I wrote my own story about the character.RUDNICK:
[22] It's an interesting role too -- you do this so well -- you portray this very strong, quiet, powerful person who is as powerful with looks and attitude as well as strong physically. It's an interesting combination of qualities.KIM:
[23] The fascinating thing about Lao Ma is that she keeps telling Xena "Don't show it, don't exert your power on anything". Lao Ma always has to be careful about everything because of her situation. But yes, she has a really quiet code of behaviour because of the men: she has to please them and make them think she has less power than she does. She has to be that traditional, quiet person. However, she tells Xena that if Xena gains control of herself, she has the key. This was something hard for Lao Ma to do herself. As R.J. [Stewart] wrote it, Lao Ma was bought, she was traded. Then she had this child that she had to give up. Then she fought so hard for peace. She was a great character. Everything I did was inspired by what he wrote. He writes very well.
The Underwater Transference of Air Scene
RUDNICK:
[24] Do you have any particularly memorable experiences from your work on that show? A scene that you're very happy or satisfied with, or something that has remained with you?KIM:
[25] [thinks] The famous "kissing scene" which is actually supposed to be me just giving her a breath, but people interpret that as they like. We had only ten minutes left in the full day. Everyone was stressing out because we were going into overtime. Lucy had been in this disgusting water all day -- the water was full of chemicals for a fog effect. She was such a sport. She hadn't complained. I had stayed dry all day, of course, because we hadn't shot the scene yet.[26] I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone, and I'm not saying anyone was whining or complaining -- they were just worried about whether we could do it in such short time, but I remember all these men standing around and saying things like "We don't have time", "It's too important, it's too hard, there's no way". They didn't think we'd be able to find each other under water.
[27] Lucy looked at me and I looked at her. We were both very businesslike about it. She said "Go under water with your eyes closed. I'll find your mouth, I'll keep my eyes open. Let's try it." Everyone was very quiet. And we did it! We just did it! We did it very quickly, we did two takes of it.
[28] I remember thinking that often when you work with people on movies they can have a very precious attitude about themselves. If the director stresses out everyone stresses out. But we were just like two tomboy-ish girls diving underwater. I remember that. I remember it was just fun.
[29] Lucy definitely sets the work ethic. She's a hard worker. She's fun -- she and I goofed around a lot. But when the moment came, we worked very hard. The directors are always changing, and the tone on the set is up to the lead person. And she sets a fun, hard-working tone.
Subtext
RUDNICK:
[30] That particular scene and a couple of others in the show -- the one where Lao Ma says "You're wrong, I don't eat meat" and so forth -- can spark a lot of conversation with people who are fans of "the subtext" in the show. I don't know if you're aware of that phenomenon or not, but it's something that you don't get many shows. Xena has a number of fans from a number of, and at times divergent, demographic groups that really watch the show and pay attention to all aspects of what they see.KIM:
[31] Oh, sure! And when you watch the show you know that the producers, writer, and directors are aware of it.RUDNICK:
[32] They seem to have fun with it, too.
Xena and Lao Ma enjoy the freedom of clear thought, manifested by the 'flying' scene.
KIM:
[33] What's really smart is to allow it to be ambivalent -- to play it as a friendship. If people want to read into it that's great. The fact that they're covering a gay audience, a heterosexual audience, and appealing to young girls, the fact that all three of those really different demographics are joining together to watch the show is great.RUDNICK:
[34] That is so true!KIM:
[35] It says something, doesn't it? It says we want to see strong women, kicking ass, and whether that is a fantasy or reality or an idea planted in a young girl's head is great. You can interpret it however you want. That's pretty smart.
The Future
RUDNICK:
[36] I agree. I think that's very positive and I think they're very successful with it as well. Have they asked you to come back to do something with Lao Ma in future, such as more flashbacks or something?KIM:
[37] I don't know what their plans are. I don't know what the future is for that. My 1998 is looking busy for me.RUDNICK:
[38] What do you have coming up?KIM:
[39] I'm going to be flying to the Philippines and possibly Thailand in January and February to shoot a movie. The movie is called Brokedown Palace or Two Girls, they keep changing the title. It's a character story. I'm also planning to work on a film that's a bi-racial love story between an Asian woman and an African-American man. Another friend is writing a film and she wants me to play an action hero. So there are a lot of things floating around.RUDNICK:
[40] I also noticed that you did a performance of Uncle Vanya last year in Seattle. You seem to be busy with films coming up, but what do you think about stage work?KIM:
[41] I will do the theatre forever. It's my home, and where I learned everything I do. It's where I will always return. Film work is so fleeting. I've also directed recently. I directed a play before I did Xena. That's just beginning, but I'm definitely going to direct in theatre and work more in theatre.RUDNICK:
[42] I think I've worked my way through my list of questions. Thank you very, very much for your time.KIM:
[43] Oh, sure! My pleasure.
Lao Ma keeps her vegetables in the boudoir, not the fridge.
Biography
Bret Rudnick
Whoosh! Token Guy Who Lifts the Heavy Stuff
IAXS Executive Committee
"You can never have too much money or too many Amazons"
When he's not working for a big Science/Engineering company that (amongst other things) designs, builds, launches, and operates exploratory spacecraft, Bret writes fantasy novels and short stories. Bret is a man of many skills, having also previously been an Olympic-qualified archer, a drummer in the Butch Grinder Band, a news reader for Public Television Station KVCR, and a Deputy Sheriff for the County of San Bernardino, California. He also collects Japanese swords, armour, and art. He and his dog hunt down stray Bacchae in New England.
Favorite episode: HOOVES AND HARLOTS (#10), WARRIOR...PRINCESS...TRAMP (#30), and THE QUEST (#37)
Favorite line: Xena: "What's this?" Gabrielle: "I'm... an amazon princess?" Xena (rolls eyes): "Great." (HOOVES AND HARLOTS, #10); Xena after being goosed by Joxer : "Are you suicidal?" (WARRIOR...PRINCESS...TRAMP, #30); Joxer: "Ha. Ha." A COMEDY OF EROS (#46); Autolycus: "I'm not just leering at scantily clad women, you know, I'm working!" THE QUEST (#37)
First episode seen: CRADLE OF HOPE (#04)
Least favorite episode: GIANT KILLER (#27)
