Author's Note:

For twelve years, Robert Bruce was Kevin Smith's agent, trainer, and close friend. In March 2002, Mr. Bruce discussed his own varied career, his long professional and personal association with Kevin Smith, their last night together, and the Trust Fund for Kevin's children. There has been some editing of this telephone interview, but no attempt has been made to duplicate Mr. Bruce's Scottish burr. The Robert Bruce Agency can be found here.

When thanked for his openness and time, he wrote back simply 'Anything for Kev.'

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Meeting Kevin Smith (01-05)
The Ares Role (06-20)
The Success of Ares and Dealing with Fandom (21-37)
Sword and Staff (38-41)
The Kevin Smith Foundation (42-99)
Tobermoray (100-103)
Sports (104-107)
Travel (108-111)
Breaking Into the Biz (112-127)
Managing and Acting in New Zealand (128-137)
Acknowledgements
Biography

Robert Bruce, Agent Extraordinaire Photo by Donna Redden (c) Joel Tobeck Fanclub

Meeting Kevin Smith

INTERVIEWER:
^[01] How did you first hear of or meet Kevin Smith?

BRUCE:
^[02] Well, Kevin. He was from South Island, and one of my other clients, who was also a friend rang me and said, 'Look, there's someone at the theatre you just have to meet. He's 6'3", he's good looking, he's played rugby, a big guy, and can act.' So I said, 'okay, tell him to send a photo up.' He sent a photo up, I got it, and sure enough, he had a good look, though a boyish look about him, and so I spoke to him on the phone. He came up to meet me, and we talked, and well, a client-relationship formed, but also a friend- relationship almost right away, because I found the same sense of humor, though it was hard to get it out of Kev, a very shy guy.

^[03] One common ground was when he asked me if I knew a gymnasium he could use. I told him the gym that I used where I got a deal for actors. He asked about personal trainers, and I said, 'Well you don't have any money, you've got to come up from Timaru, you can't afford a personal trainer. But I'll train you if you get there at five in the morning.' He sort of looked at me (laughs) and said 'Okay'. And that was it. We started that day. It was the seventh of December '89 that we met. One thirty in the afternoon.

INTERVIEWER:
^[04] Are you always that precise, or did he make that much of an impression?

BRUCE:
^[05] Well, I'm very orderly, but…

The Ares Role

INTERVIEWER:
^[06] How did the Ares role come about?

BRUCE:
^[07] He'd been doing other stuff. He'd been doing theatresports [competitive team improvisation comedy], drama, but the one thing I realized with the guy very soon was that there was an amazing talent there. I told him at the time that it was going to be ten years before he could start to make it in the business. My reasons were that he was a very big guy and very young. Most actors then, and even still, you get your Tom Cruises, your Stallones, they're all midgets.

INTERVIEWER:
^[08] They are walking on boxes and the co-stars are standing in trenches.

BRUCE:
^[09] Yes. So I knew you're not suddenly going to get this 6'3" handsome person, he's not going to get the chance, but most of all, he was too young, too babyfaced, I said, 'You gotta get lines on your face, you gotta get the experience of the business. So I spoke to his wife, and said, 'Listen. In order to get Kev's career to where I want it, you're going to make an awful lot of sacrifices in the early stages.' In other words, we'll be turning down, three out of every five jobs, cause it's easy to get overexposed in this country. You can be hot one minute, and not the next, because it's so small, people will go, 'Oh, not her again!' You cannot take that risk. So, we just did that.

^[10] He and I worked out, continued to work out four days a week. I worked out some fight stuff with him, and I gave him a fighting style. We were really good mates. We had that relationship, that worked, and…(pause) Yeah. I mean I have a good relationship with all my clients, but there was something with Kev, that was, just…

INTERVIEWER:
^[11] You said he was fairly shy at the beginning, but that does not sound like the Kevin Smith the fans saw.

BRUCE:
^[12] What he did, the thing people don't realize is that through theatresports you always have to dance on your toes and Kevin was an amazing theatresports player. He went to the World Championships in Orlando. He also was a standup comedian, and he used to write his own stuff for the comedy clubs here. That was his way of putting himself on the line. He said to me, that was sink or swim, that was a must for him to do that. So, people suddenly got to know this guy and all these other talents. His musical talents, he had a band. He had a h*ll of a singing voice, he used to sing in the jazz clubs sometimes, you know he sang in front of 250,000 people at the Christmas show. So all these things started to permeate over the first few years, that he had all these skills. Then when Xena and Hercules came, they wanted a bad god.

INTERVIEWER:
^[13] He was already doing Iphicles, right?

BRUCE:
^[14] Yes, he did the Iphicles first.

INTERVIEWER:
^[15] Which was not exactly an impressive part…

BRUCE:
^[16] No. That was just... it's the old thing just to get in. Ares hadn't been thought of at that point. That's one of those things, there's something like when Renaissance came here, who knew, at that time, no one knew if it was gonna go big time or… So when he got the role there, this was an opportunity to strut his stuff with an American company. They loved him. And Ares was born.

INTERVIEWER:
^[17] Now Ares is a great role, AND he made the most of it.

BRUCE:
^[18] Oh yeah

INTERVIEWER:
^[19] People like to see villains enjoying themselves.

BRUCE:
^[20] (laughs) Oh yeah, and he built that role too.

The Success of Ares and Dealing with Fandom

INTERVIEWER:
^[21] But when fame began to build off-stage, how did he feel, especially about the conventions and the rest of the fandom?

BRUCE:
^[22] He enjoyed it for a while, but then it got a bit crazy. I remember he came back from one, I can't remember which one, and he said, 'I think I may have to say no to the conventions now, I don't mind doing them, but it's…'(pause)

INTERVIEWER:
^[23] A little too intense?

BRUCE:
^[24] Yes. It's constantly pressure, pressure. Not for what you're doing. I mean he could get up and talk for eight hours, (laughs), you know it's not that, it was just the fans are just… we're not used to fans at all here. The most a fan would do here is maybe ask 'excuse me' and you'd sign an autograph. But to be exposed from, well here, where you're able to wander around in your own town and go to the supermarket, the pub, or a restaurant - which he loved to do - that wasn't possible there, ever.

INTERVIEWER:
^[25] I have heard that the conventions can be a rather intense experience, and the fans can be rather frenzied.

BRUCE:
^[26] He wasn't used to that, you know. Staying in a hotel and using another name. It's just that constant… he didn't… I mean, he liked his fans, obviously the fans are why you're there…

INTERVIEWER:
^[27] But there's a little bit of craziness there.

BRUCE:
^[28] Yes, and sure, you know, some of them are nuts but I guess that's what you're gonna get.

INTERVIEWER:
^[29] It is hard to tell the sincere nuts from the crazy nuts, of course.

BRUCE:
^[30] That's right. The good thing in a way is that I've been exposed to the fandom because of wrestling. Because of the different countries I went to, I had to take the back ways out of stadiums, security with submachine guns and riots in South Africa while you were whisked away. I had, in Fiji where when I walked down the street, I had thirty followers. So I knew, I had the fan letters and this and that, you know. So I'd been through that.

INTERVIEWER:
^[31] I realize that the intensity of some people's feelings about Kevin must have been a little scary for him, but were you surprised at the response after his death? The fund raising and so on?

BRUCE:
^[32] No, no, no. I knew it would be. Because he… the thing about Kev, was, even though he found that… one thing was the fans. He never disliked the fans.

INTERVIEWER:
^[33] He was a huge popular success at the conventions.

BRUCE:
^[34] The way I would sum Kevin up is three words: Kevin loved people. And people loved Kevin. That actually sums it up, because he would always have time. You know, although he'd be in a rush to go somewhere, or somewhere else, and someone would come up and blah blah blah, they'd start and try to get him in conversation. Rather than be impolite, and saying 'Hey, nice to meet you and by the way, gotta go,' he'd go on, and I'd be going, 'Come on…. ' But he always had time for them. That was the thing. Even at his busiest of busy, he'd go down and coach his son's rugby team, and he was always doing stuff for local charities, just, whatever he could do… for people.

^[35] Yes, it was funny. The thing that I guess, the fandom, when we realized how big it was, when we had to stop the American fandom… because it got too big. We were just inundated all the time. I mean, when Kevin was working, and he was one of the actors that worked solidly, he hardly ever had any down time. Well, when you're doing twelve, fourteen hour days shooting, you've got to find time with the kids, you've got this and that, and you've got the fan president saying 'Hey, we need some information for this, we need dadada.' It became too difficult. We had the British fan club that was almost in place. We kind of put a block on it as well. The German one, it was the only one that was still run, but it wasn't quite…

INTERVIEWER:
^[36] It was more manageable?

BRUCE:
^[37] Yes, but that's the thing. Gosh, the response I had recently, one day just answering e-mails to pass onto Kevin's family took me six and a half hours.

Sword and Staff

INTERVIEWER:
^[38] So, it is a terrible balance for you to walk. Here you were supposed to be promoting someone and knowing the fans are important, and at the same time, you are obviously worried about the personal life of your friend.

BRUCE:
^[39] Well, it's starting to quiet a little bit now. The amazing response to Sword and Staff, you know, they are collecting, there are a few bona fide groups who have elected to collect.

INTERVIEWER:
^[40] I have heard different groups saying they would rather donate to the fund directly. Sword and Staff was trying to be the funnel group for many of the on-list Xenaverse contributions, how do you feel about that? Is there a conflict for you?

BRUCE:
^[41] It's, ummm, easier really, if, if at all, I mean, Sword and Staff is reliable. We'd be happy if they did the collecting and then funneled it on. The way it's set up, it's all we could do in such a rush. The basic trustees are Lucy Lawless, Michael Hurst, Simon Prast (who's the director of the Auckland Theatre Company), and myself.

The Kevin Smith Foundation

INTERVIEWER:
^[42] And there are seven members on the Board of Trustees?

BRUCE:
^[43] Yes, they are great.

INTERVIEWER:
^[44] How much time are you having to spend on this?

BRUCE:
^[45] I don't know. It's indeterminable. A lot. It's not so bad now, but since it happened, it was seventeen-hour days for me every day.

INTERVIEWER:
^[46] Then, can I go back and ask, what were your first thoughts when you heard?

BRUCE:
^[47] Ahhh, I was just… sick. I just felt, ummm, I… it was hard to come to terms with it, just out of the blue, like that. I mean we, prior to him leaving for this, the Chinese shoot, I mean the reason we did it, was a fill-in, it was working with the stunt coordinator from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

INTERVIEWER:
^[48] What is the name of the film, and when is the release date for that?

BRUCE:
^[49] Warriors of Virtue: The Return to Tao. It'll be in China [as yet unreleased]. What they are is... the Chinese films are now being produced by some conglomerate. There's American money, Australian money, and Chinese, as far as I know of, I'm not sure of the makeup…

INTERVIEWER:
^[50] But there's no distribution outside of China?

BRUCE:
^[51] No, as I understand, they're made for a Chinese market

INTERVIEWER:
^[52] The conglomerate is simply investors, rather than a studio?

BRUCE:
^[53] Yes.

INTERVIEWER:
^[54] So, they make their money back in China entirely?

BRUCE:
^[55] Yes. What they've been doing recently is putting reasonably known people, I believe the other ones in this company, Willem DeFoe did one, and Donald Sutherland.

INTERVIEWER:
^[56] This filled in a gap in Kevin's schedule?

BRUCE:
^[57] It was good, it was actually a perfect gap straight after Christmas, which is generally a very quiet time. The fact that, as I say, working with the stunt coordinator of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, was a major consideration, for what he was going onto. He was going onto Navy Seal bootcamp for two weeks. Plus a week's rehearsal, and then fifteen weeks in Hawaii.

INTERVIEWER:
^[58] What had they seen him in for the American film?

BRUCE:
^[59] We were up in LA, it was between conventions, I had business up in LA, and I had forgotten we had three days. During that time we went and saw the casting director of this Bruce Willis film… that was way in late October. They rang and flew him over late November, just to meet the director, and make sure.

INTERVIEWER:
^[60] What kind of role was he going to be playing?

BRUCE:
^[61] Oh, a very good role, very good. It was…everything was there. This was what I'd, we'd, worked for twelve years on. Everything was in place. He was playing a good guy, he was playing one of Bruce's offsiders. It was a team of experts Bruce puts together for this mission, and Kevin was one of them. Because he was so into physical fitness, and Bruce Willis is into physical fitness, Bruce's personal trainer called while he was in China, just to say he was looking forward to working with him, and going to give him a checking out, and asking what program Kevin was doing at the moment. That's the level we were at.

INTERVIEWER:
^[62] So for all the regrets, is there some sort of sense that he knew he was at last on his way? That everything had come together?

BRUCE:
^[63] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before he went to China, we went out to dinner to celebrate. And I said, 'Mate. This is it. All these hard twelve years, this is what it's for.' And yeah, we had a great night.

INTERVIEWER:
^[64] So the irony is still painful as well?

BRUCE:
^[65] Yes, but you know, it's kinda, it's…. What I have out of it is, that I got him there. Say this had happened two years ago, and I hadn't got him there, got him nearly there. But I hadn't got him there. It's like if you train an athlete to go to the Olympics, if they make the grade and go to the Olympics. That in itself is a huge achievement. From then on what happens, whatever…

INTERVIEWER:
^[66] Well, you knew he had made that?

BRUCE:
^[67] Oh yeah, totally. Yeah. That's something I've learned that you have to do under the circumstances. I lost my wife nine months ago suddenly to cancer. Out of the blue. Faced with…what you have to look at is… all right, this is a tragedy, but what did our life together represent? Then you go, well, we had a hell of a life together. So I'm luckier than most people. We had that time together. You've got to kind of find plusses. You have to try to find the positives where there are negatives, otherwise you just go down, down, down.

^[68] With Kevin, I had to think that way, that at least we got to where it was at. The door was open, and the deal was done. He was looking forward to the Navy Seal camp as much as the film. Because, you know some people are into fitness. And Kev was, and I am. I always try to get my actors to be fit. You train, and there's a buzz you get out of physical challenges. He was so looking forward to the Navy Seal camp. It was just like 'if I have to go there, I don't want to look like a pansy.' (laughs)

INTERVIEWER:
^[69] So were there any premonitions?

BRUCE:
^[70] I think it was just, same as with my wife. I remember the day the specialist said that 'This is serious'.

INTERVIEWER:
^[71] It came out of the blue?

BRUCE:
^[72] Totally out of the blue. She had asthma, we just thought that the asthma was, you know, and they just did a check, and found cancer in the lungs so and she went seven weeks from diagnosis to passing away. The week before, she was doing four yoga classes a week.

INTERVIEWER:
^[73] I can't imagine losing the woman I love. We've only been together for two years, so what it meant to you…

BRUCE:
^[74] We had thirty years together… So (pause) Kev and I had twelve years together as a friendship…

INTERVIEWER:
^[75] I asked several people for questions, maybe this would be a good time to ask those. One obviously is: what is your fondest memory?

BRUCE:
^[76] Fondest memory? Was just Kevin. Kev always had humor. Amazing humor. Love. As I said, he loved people, loved life. And that would be the biggest thing, his humor.

INTERVIEWER:
^[77] The most humorous moment with him, then?

BRUCE:
^[78] Funniest?

INTERVIEWER:
^[79] Or most bizarre?

BRUCE:
^[80] (Laughs) Ahhhh. God. I think the one story - this is actually one I gave at the memorial service. This will give you an idea of Kevin. Kevin, because he was so strict on his diet and his training regime and everything else, we had to monitor, well you know, when we went out to dinner...yeah, we would have wine with dinner, or this or that. But there'd be no butter on his bagel, or no this and no that. That was how he lived. He was on set meals a day. You know like tuna, rice, this and that. But after midnight, it all changed. It seemed as if after midnight it didn't matter. Because the only things that were open then were midnight burger stalls or whatever, and if we'd been out and had dinner and a drink at a club and then you're on your way home, he would have to go and eat. He had to eat. I used to say to him 'What about the diet now, mate?' And you know, he'd say 'Well, ahhh' but it was all right because it was in the middle of the night (laughs) and it was in darkness, so it was okay.

^[81] The actual funniest thing pertaining to that was that the last night he and I were in LA, we started off at a friend's restaurant in Beverly, and went there for drinks. And then with the friend who owns the restaurant, he took us to the Lucky Duck. Which is the best Chinese restaurant in Los Angeles. So we went there as guests, and we had a beautiful meal there. From there, through other friends, we were taken to The Deep. It's a new club, that they featured in Ocean's Eleven. If you've seen the film, there's a scene where they're in a nightclub, and that is a true nightclub, and Kev and I were guests just when it was opening. So we went there that night. And when we left there, another close friend of ours, Joe Sutton, his son owns a nightclub as well. So Joe tells us 'I won't be able to come with you, but my son's expecting you, there's the address'. So we were taken there and we go to this other nightclub. Well, the nightclub closes, everybody comes out, we come out and it was in an area… well I didn't know LA as well as Kev, it was kind of round back streets, and there was no indication of kinda where we were. So we're out there, and people are all dispersing, there's no cabs or anything. So I said 'Where are we?' and he said 'I don't know.' So we better find a main road. So we started walking, and had a long chat…

INTERVIEWER:
^[82] Walking in LA? Is that allowed?

BRUCE:
^[83] (laughs) Oh, yeah. So we walked down and we can't find the bloody main road. Eventually, 'Ah, there's a main road,' and we go and it's deserted, because it's around 2:30. And we're wandering along, and just before we reach this building, on the right, the doors open, and out pours crowds of people. Now this is obviously one of the late night nightclubs. And we suddenly realize 'Sh-t, we are in the WRONG area.' East Hollywood.

INTERVIEWER:
^[84] Rough crowd?

BRUCE:
^[85] Yeah. 'What do we do?' Like, if we come and go, 'Hey', it's pretty obvious, so we have to just carry on walking so 'What I'll do is, you walk behind me, and we try not to look at anyone, and certainly try not to bump any of them, and we'll just meander through the crowd…' So we're getting through, we're in the middle of the crowd, and the next thing I hear is 'Hey Rob! Rob!' I thought 'Aw, no!' And I turned round, and he says 'Hold on a minute, mate!' and there was a hotdog stand.

INTERVIEWER:
^[86] And you just wanted to get the h-ll out of there, right?

BRUCE:
^[87] And he went, and he comes back with four hotdogs. (laughs) And I'm standing there, with all these, well, that part of LA, mate, is like … Fortunately, as I say, he comes back with four hotdogs, so we carry on walking. And I say, 'Mate!!!' He says, 'Aw, I was so hungry!' and I could have… you know? (laughs) So even in the midst of where we could have perhaps disappeared, never to be found ever again, all he thought of was his stomach.

INTERVIEWER:
^[88] What would you like to say about the Trust Fund to people who would be thinking of donating?

BRUCE:
^[89] The fund is for Sue, and Sue to bring the kids up as Kevin would have wanted.

INTERVIEWER:
^[90] How was Kevin not covered for this?

BRUCE:
^[91] Well the Chinese film was a flat fee, and he was only becoming a member of SAG (Screen Actors' Guild) to do the Bruce Willis film.

INTERVIEWER:
^[92] It just seems to be crazy that someone who was working so steadily had nothing to cover him.

BRUCE:
^[93] Well, Equity has like a bereavement assistance fund, but you know…

INTERVIEWER:
^[94] But it is not exactly something that will raise or educate children?

BRUCE:
^[95] Oh, of course not, though every little bit helps. But you can only imagine the costs, because the irony too, is that in New Zealand, nobody, even though Kevin was 'tall' [Kiwi for successful] and he made a reasonable living, that is all you're gonna make in New Zealand. It doesn't matter who you are, because of what the fees are here. It's only barely four million people.

INTERVIEWER:
^[96] Presumably that is why some companies were located there, because the wages and costs were that much lower?

BRUCE:
^[97] Yes, and it's a fact of life.

INTERVIEWER:
^[98] And death. How do you think Kevin would like to be remembered?

BRUCE:
^[99] I think the thing is, with all his fame and popularity, he never changed. He was always Kev. Rather than Kevin. Close friends, family, they all say Kev. And I think that's the testament that every actor who has known him has said. 'The guy was so humble.' He had it all, but he never ever pushed, never flouted it, he was just Kev. And he loved to be just himself, and then when he did a job, he would be whatever character. It's like the ultimate. If you could be, where 'I'll just be me, and then I'll go and I'll do my gig,' many people can't do that. Because ego takes over, you see it with… a lot. And it never did with him. And I think that would be, people would want to remember him as Kev. People loved him, just loved him. People would come up to him, kids would come up, and he always had time, just always had time. Just good old Kev. That would be... that would be it.

Tobermoray

INTERVIEWER:
^[100] One thing I noticed in your biography, the agency is listed at Tobermoray? Is that the name of the building or your home?

ROBERT BRUCE:
^[101] Yes, it's my building. The reason behind that is that my grandfather was a lighthouse keeper on the Island of Mull. I used to spend my summer holidays on the lighthouse there. Although I've traveled the world extensively, my childhood memories of it are something special. My office is in the building, which is a hundred and twenty-year-old villa.

INTERVIEWER:
^[102] Are there many buildings of that age in Auckland?

BRUCE:
^[103] Yes, there's a few. There's a street down here, it's an old area, and they're called villas. I use the symbol of a lighthouse, for people who can't find a harbor.

Sports

INTERVIEWER:
^[104] I came across many mentions of sports during your youth. You clearly had successes in wrestling, but it is not clear if it was professional or Greco-Roman or what.

BRUCE:
^[105] I wrestled, amateur and professional, and held the professional Commonwealth title for five years.

INTERVIEWER:
^[106] How many matches did it take to retain?

BRUCE:
^[107] I lost count. I would tour countries: Australia, be there for six weeks, to Japan for six weeks. I traveled extensively. When you were working in a city or a town, you were only generally around there for a day. I used to use up passports like you wouldn't believe -- I mean the stamps! When I looked at them at the end, people would say, 'Sh-t, you've been here, you've been there', yeah, but hey. Every hotelroom is the same, unless you actually had the time. When I was in South Africa, I only fought twice a week, and I managed to see all of South Africa. So, that was great because I had down time. When I was in Japan, I did tours every year of Japan. In the six weeks, I might have five days off. Three of those days might be travelling, because when you travel, it's by coach.

Travel

INTERVIEWER:
^[108] Did you name your building Tobermoray to link it to your past, after all these wanderings?

BRUCE:
^[109] Yes. I came here [New Zealand] because of the lady who became my wife [who was a New Zealander]. To get the [Commonwealth] title, I had to wrestle here. So I came down, and I just fell in love with the place. We bought a house and continued to travel.

INTERVIEWER:
^[110] Immigration must have been a little easier then?

BRUCE:
^[111] Oh yes. (laughs) Of course, we married, but I was a Kiwi by then anyway.

Breaking Into the Biz

INTERVIEWER:
^[112] When you arrived, were you also doing stuntwork and acting at that point?

BRUCE:
^[113] Yes, but the acting and stuntwork actually started to take a backseat in London, because I had many strings to my bow at the time. One of them was the acting. I was doing amateur acting, stock, stage, and stuff like improvisation. At the same time to subsidize myself, I was working in security for gambling clubs: The Playboy Club of Auckland, places like that. I was able to make money that way when I got there. I got some bits on TV, or doing commercials, that was good too. When I got into the wrestling business, I guess it was within a year I was doing main events. It really took off for me.

INTERVIEWER:
^[114] You are always hearing that in the sixties, the amount of money that was available in pro sport was so little compared to now.

BRUCE:
^[115] It was. But I was working four times a week and earning three times what the average man might have in his pay packet. The thing is, with the matches, I might do four a week, I might do five, and that still allowed me to carry on with the stuntwork.

INTERVIEWER:
^[116] When and how did you decide that management was the way to go?

BRUCE:
^[117] I guess this is the way it all came about. There have been some significant things in my life that happened. People do ask me, why do you work as an agent? Why do you want to look after people? When I trained in Scotland, where they filmed Trainspotting, it's tough, one of the toughest areas.

INTERVIEWER:
^[118] It always has been, right?

BRUCE:
^[119] Oh yes. And in those days, I used to have to bus in, and then walk to get to these pubs. One day I was with this guy, who was much older than me, walking along and there was a kid by one of those tenement blocks, and he had a ball, and he was kicking it against the wall. Kicking it, keeping it up. And the guy said to me, 'See him there? He could probably play for Scotland, but no one will ever discover him down here.' Now I guess I was only about sixteen at the time, but I remember that because it was a 'sh-t yeah, you got a point there' moment. Because I knew, he'd never get the opportunity, though he's got amazing skills.

INTERVIEWER:
^[120] So you realized that what he needed was a mentor or someone…

BRUCE:
^[121] … someone might come along and get him away from all that. In reality, what the guy was saying is that in a lot of depressed areas you're never going to get out. You can see talent, but… That one thing stuck. Then, ironically, when I left school I took accountancy, for two and a half years, which I hated, but I thought I should do something with my education, but I found I didn't like it. But I had that... the sort of financial 'canniness', if you will. Then from then on, when I became a wrestler, I did my own deals.

INTERVIEWER:
^[122] You were negotiating and signing your own contracts?

BRUCE:
^[123] Yes. Then, when I became a very big household name in New Zealand, at the time, it was just huge and we were selling out seventeen weeks in advance

INTERVIEWER:
^[124] It must have been rather handy to have a name like Robert Bruce.

BRUCE:
^[125] (laughs) Well, I wore the kilt and all that as well. It worked. Anyway, injuries took their toll, and I was thinking I'd have to rest the body. A TV producer said, 'We've got this series and it's set back in the depression days and there's this story we've written, and we've seen you around, and we wrote it with you in mind.' They got the scriptwriter to write me into two episodes. There was a guest, a British actor, who was the wife of the main director of the Mercury Theatre, which was our main theatre, and she said to me 'Have you ever done stage?' She introduced me to her husband and I ended up doing three plays. While I was there, because there were no agents in New Zealand at the time, but most of the working actors were around the theatre, because the industry was kind of small basically, the director of the episode I was on, he said to me, 'Have you ever thought of managing?'

INTERVIEWER:
^[126] Where did that come from?

BRUCE:
^[127] What happened I guess, because he was present when I came in while the producer was trying to talk me into a deal. They had tried to sign me and said 'This is the money', and I just laughed. Then they said since I was a stuntman, 'How about you choreographing the fights?' I said yeah, and they said they could up the money that way, straight way. Then if you can find the guys to do the fights with…

Managing and Acting in New Zealand

INTERVIEWER:
^[128] What is it like now? I see that there are several agencies.

BRUCE:
^[129] Oh, it's grown. We're talking twenty, thirty years ago.

INTERVIEWER:
^[130] Every nation seems to have a boom and bust period in film and television production. How difficult is it for a New Zealand actor to get out now?

BRUCE:
^[131] To get out into the big world?

INTERVIEWER:
^[132] As a Canadian in Britain, we're very aware of the fact that the market is usually elsewhere.

BRUCE:
^[133] You gotta start somewhere. If you've got talent, you've got opportunity here perhaps because it's smaller.

INTERVIEWER:
^[134] You have said that they do not have cattle calls. That it is more like a job interview with a CV (curriculum vitae or resume) being passed around during casting.

BRUCE:
^[135] Yes, actors here, they all get together, they talk, and they say 'Oh, have you been for this' they tell other people. In other countries, actors would never tell another actor what they're going for because they might get the job. It's still very family orientated here. But it's like anything. If you've got something, then that's your handle to let the world know about you. That's been my observation.

INTERVIEWER:
^[136] Thank you very much for this time,

BRUCE:
^[137] You're very welcome.

Acknowledgements

My thanks to my partner, Lariel, for reading the phone bill without shooting me, my producer, Amy Murphy, and Ann Braxton for her editing skill. And of course, Robert Bruce.

Biography

G.B. Caddell
A middle-aged romantic Canadian/Quebecois, G.B. Caddell moved to Britain over a year ago to suck the life out of a younger Bard living by the Thames outside London. Between the two of them, they have received nine XIPPY's, three Swollen Buds, and numerous other Fanfiction awards. G. B. Caddell has beta'ed the work of over one hundred amateur writers and is known for his use of a whip in encouraging authors.

Favorite episode: ONE AGAINST AN ARMY